Discussion: Nooooooo :( WT vs. USARA

why oh why?

why?

Both the same weekend, October 3rd ish.

http://wildernesstraverse.com/

http://www.usaranationals.com/

The only conceivable reason is that the risk of Bob the Beaver relocating to the United States was too high on any other weekend.

I think you meant http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo

USARA is always held on the first October weekend.

We knew about it but options were very limited in 2015 due to Getawaystix's work commitments and major Ontario races happening on Sept. 12 and Sept. 19. Even if we'd been able to book the host site on Sept. 26 (which we couldn't), I doubt many USARA racers would have travelled two weekends in a row. Unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible to find a good place to put an event on the calendar!

Curious... Did anyone else except Mr. Wonderful do both events in 2014 when they were 3 months apart? If not, then I think he is the unofficial North American AR champion.

Ha! Bash is politely saying 'Most of you complainers didn't come up to do it last year anyways!" Guilty as charged although I did race both in 2012 and '13.

I did both in 2013 and would have done both in 2014 if I hadn't been injured after UNE.

he is the unofficial North American AR champion

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd...WT takes the lead!

:))

It is nice to know you Americans weren't just pretending to like us. Really wish we had more flexibility in dates. Darn that Getawaystix and his obsession with earning money for rent and groceries! ;)

Heck yeah, us Michigan teams do both whenever possible. WT is one of the best and close within driving distance so that makes it convenient too.

This is such a bummer. This puts an end to my three years in a row. Well maybe. :) Ontario is closer then TN.

Pick us! Pick us! :)

Given the format complaints, it will be interesting to see who votes for what with their $$ and vacation days.

Is the USARA Nationals hosted by different race organizers each year? I assume that regardless of format, the event is prestigious because it's the Nationals.

Yes, USARA Nats hosted by different RDs every year. the exception being 2014, where DINO hosted a second time (after hosting 2013 in their native state of Indiana) because the planned RD backed out.

2015 is going to be hosted by Flying Squirrel AR aka Stephanie Ross. She does an incredible job from start to finish. also...mid-race chuckwagon!!

Awesome. As an observer from afar, Stephanie seems to put a lot of effort into top quality events!

me and my money votes for 40 cps over 6 cps.

And that's totally cool! :) We've never done WT with fewer than 8 CPs over 150 km but if we could, we would. Ideally, we want WT to feel like a short wilderness expedition with route choice over long distances. We know that isn't everyone's cup of tea, just as 40-CP adventure races don't appeal to everyone. What's great is that we have so many fun choices in the adventure world!

My apologies to the U.S. Teams for the date conflict. We were basically at the point of going with this date, or not hosting it at all in 2015. When we did a survey a few years ago, date conflicts were the number one reason why people couldn't attend in a given year, so we know we're never going to be able to please everyone.

People looking for a real Adventure Race should choose WT.
Just my measly 2 cents.

Hey Joe, conflict notwithstanding, I think you would really enjoy WT. In most years the route choice is pretty decent. Long legs with very limited (and in some cases no) trails. Ontario's near north, where the race has been hosted recently, is quite subtle without many big hills as well which makes the navigation on the trekking quite demanding. This year's paddle was likely one of the more difficult paddle navigation sections I've seen in AR. It may actually have decided the race. With an October date brings more darkness and so I'm expecting an epic night trek from Bob.

Bob, Bash: I hereby volunteer to test some of the sections again for you next year.

Re. 40 CPs vs. 6. WT will always have fewer than 40 CPs, and most likely less than 20, it's the style of race we aim to offer: remote, epic terrain across vast wilderness with few checkpoints along a generally linear route to give you the feeling that you're truly "out there". We chose this style as the terrain in our area lends itself to it and it can't be done in many parts of the world. I personally enjoy both styles of events since I enjoy the different challenges they present, but make no mistake, you'll need to locate countless waypoints, or points of reference along the way at WT to make sure you're on course. We could add more CPs but that would actually reduce the challenge over the style of course we offer. We could also add sections with numerous CPs clumped in an area to test micro-nav, or more orienteering style skills, but we chose not to as it's not the experience we're aiming to offer at this event.

Thanks, Hammer! And we'd love to see you, Sean!

To be clear, we aren't attempting to draw teams away from the USARA Champs. It was a known conflict when we had to go with that date, so we mentally crossed a few potential racers off the list with regret. I expect we'll probably do less advertising in the U.S. this year too.

Having said that, there are likely some Canadians who want a warmer race with more CPs so they'll head south, and perhaps some Americans prefer our format and will head north. As Bob says, we enjoy many different types of adventure race formats ourselves, so just because we have this particular vision for WT, it is not intended as a criticism of other formats.

Always having under 10CPs at WT is why I like it.

Average high for Oct 3 for that area: ~ 14C / 57F
Average low for Oct 3 for that area: ~ 6C / 43F

Bash, regardless of conflicts, thanks for announcing a race date nice and early. I'm sure it can be tricky for RD's to commit so far in advance but it really helps racers plan out their upcoming year.

To really spread things out, it looks like the other champs, NAARS, is an entire fortnight before WT/USARAs.

Ha, that was actually our first choice! Venue was booked but then we learned that STORM the 'Scarpment had moved to that weekend in 2015.