Discussion: Untamed New England - July 2018
in: Adventure Racing; General
Jul 11, 2018 4:39 AM
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Bash:
Untamed NE is coming up soon, July 25-29. Teams will check in at the University of New Hampshire in Durham, NH then enjoy a mystery "transportation experience" to a remote start location.
Final Captain Communication with course schematic and time estimates has been released. http://www.untamedne.com/media/CaptainComm3u_2018....
Team Roster - lots of APers. Speak up here to let us know!
<http://www.untamedne.com/ExpeditionRoster.aspx>
I'll be working at HQ for this one so may not have much time to update this discussion but hopefully someone else will be watching and can help! We'll also be posting news on our own channels:
Live Race Coverage, Leaderboard, News and Dot Watching
UNE Facebook page
Twitter
Instagram
Flickr
Also, some teams have signed up for extra reporting from Craig at the AR Live Coverage Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/arlivecoverage/
Final Captain Communication with course schematic and time estimates has been released. http://www.untamedne.com/media/CaptainComm3u_2018....
Team Roster - lots of APers. Speak up here to let us know!
<http://www.untamedne.com/ExpeditionRoster.aspx>
I'll be working at HQ for this one so may not have much time to update this discussion but hopefully someone else will be watching and can help! We'll also be posting news on our own channels:
Live Race Coverage, Leaderboard, News and Dot Watching
UNE Facebook page
Flickr
Also, some teams have signed up for extra reporting from Craig at the AR Live Coverage Facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/arlivecoverage/
Jul 13, 2018 2:34 PM
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I'm curious to find out what the mystery transportation experience is! If "4 am in a school bus down sketchy roads" is "normal" in AR, what does "mystery" become??...
Limo or rickshaw, driven by Nathan Fa'ave?...
World's longest zipline....?
Zorbs for everyone?
Segway racing?
Mutton busting?....
Limo or rickshaw, driven by Nathan Fa'ave?...
World's longest zipline....?
Zorbs for everyone?
Segway racing?
Mutton busting?....
Jul 19, 2018 12:20 PM
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Bash:
Which Attackpointers are racing and what is your team name? (Yes, I know some of the teams but it’s easier to collect it here.)
Jul 19, 2018 12:59 PM
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abiperk and broots will be racing with Rootstock.
Strongmachine and Kateness: Chaos Machine
DML and Sony with UntamedNE.com.
JayXC will be with Untamed New England if he'll just stop training;) Jackson5 as well.
Rocky33 is racing with Main Nerve.
Garrison, HK, and glewis are team Deviate.
danfoster is taking on his first XPD with Adventure Dogs!!!
Work4Justice (I think also taking on her first XPD) is with Midwest Mayhem.
I'm not sure if Chris L or Chad Spence are on here, but I feel like they are? Indecisve but not so sure.
Strongmachine and Kateness: Chaos Machine
DML and Sony with UntamedNE.com.
JayXC will be with Untamed New England if he'll just stop training;) Jackson5 as well.
Rocky33 is racing with Main Nerve.
Garrison, HK, and glewis are team Deviate.
danfoster is taking on his first XPD with Adventure Dogs!!!
Work4Justice (I think also taking on her first XPD) is with Midwest Mayhem.
I'm not sure if Chris L or Chad Spence are on here, but I feel like they are? Indecisve but not so sure.
Jul 19, 2018 1:08 PM
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Bash:
Thanks, Broots! Chad posts occasionally as Wokitoki. Chris L is now on Strava but used to log as DoubleDownon_11.
Jul 20, 2018 2:58 PM
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To the untrained observer, the fastest time to "time to finish" ratios are not cushy, often under +50%. Short courses like mad or a field speed distribution lumped just off the superstars?
Jul 20, 2018 3:11 PM
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Grant (the race director) has indicated that "fastest time" is the time a world-class AR team could complete a segment, and offered this reply to a similar question:
"I think the ability to exceed our "fastest time" estimate for more than an isolated section or two is limited; this is why we call it "fastest time."
I know we have hard-charging teams on the roster and, if the conditions cool off and we get ideal racing circumstances in 2 weeks, we might see teams at that "fastest time" for a section here or there, but I would be shocked if anybody sustains it even in the best of circumstances."
So, yeah, there's even less cushion between the probable fastest pace for the best teams in the 2018 lineup and the pace the rest of the pack needs to sustain to stay on the full course.
"I think the ability to exceed our "fastest time" estimate for more than an isolated section or two is limited; this is why we call it "fastest time."
I know we have hard-charging teams on the roster and, if the conditions cool off and we get ideal racing circumstances in 2 weeks, we might see teams at that "fastest time" for a section here or there, but I would be shocked if anybody sustains it even in the best of circumstances."
So, yeah, there's even less cushion between the probable fastest pace for the best teams in the 2018 lineup and the pace the rest of the pack needs to sustain to stay on the full course.
Jul 21, 2018 2:11 AM
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Just one cutoff though - at TA 4 after Leg 3. Friday at 3 a.m. Anyone know if the cutoff means into or out of TA?
Jul 21, 2018 2:13 AM
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AR Live Coverage interview with broots:
I managed to catch up with Brent Freedland of Rootstock Racing and get his thoughts on the race:
ARLC: So what are you expecting from UTNE this year?
Brent - I know it will be an ARWS caliber event. Great course, well produced and organized, some nice bells and whistles, nice prize purse. BUT, since it's not in the series, there are no ARWC podium caliber teams coming. So it will be wide open, I think with ten or so teams all capable of ending up on the podium in some order. It's a great opportunity for everyone, but from a competitive angle, it's awesome for the 10 or so teams that can all do very well at ARWS events but who never or rarely have realistic chances of WINNING them to gun for the top three.
ARLC: What is your past experience at UTNE?
Brent - We used to race as GOALS ARA. We directed races for them and were their race team. In 2009, 2010, and 2012 we raced as GOALS. In 2009, we had a great race...right up until the end. We had collected some bonus points that had us sitting in third place. All we had to do was get to the finish line. BUT...a big nav error on the last night cost us several hour, and then a logged out area which turned around a ton of teams was too much to handle. Time ran out on us in the woods. Bummer!
In 2010, the field was loaded by North American standards with a couple of very strong European teams as well. This turned out to be our best UNE to date. With many top teams including Tecnu (I personally wonder if this race was the race that really set Tecnu and Kyle Peter off) not making it through the time cutoffs, we were one of seven or eight teams to remain on the "pro course". This said, it should be noted that we did not CLEAR the course. There was a big final rogaine at the finish. We didn't need or get any of those points. In fact, I'm not sure anyone got all of them. In 2009 and 2010, this was notable at UNE: courses that were not in fact cleared by anyone as designed. In 2012 and 2014 this changed, partly because world champ level teams came and partly because Grant eased up a bit, I think. We finished 5th.
In 2012, we were derailed a bit by tech. issues: literally, my bike fell apart at the start of a four hour mountain bike. Turned into an eight hour hike a bike for me. We were knocked off the full course at the time, though as it turned out we had plenty of time to finish it:( We finished first, short course, 11th overall.
ARLC: Ok so who are the main competition?
Brent - Both Untamed New England teams will be very strong. We expect the one captained by Jason U. to be strongest, and possibly the team to beat on paper. Very strong quartet of athletes: Jason, Alex Provost, and Mindy have all raced on fast, strong teams in the past, and all have had guest appearances with the likes of Kyle Peter. Alex is one of the best racers in Canada. All have tons of ARWS experience. Tough to beat.
The other UNE is loaded with savvy and experience. They are older and don't have the wheels of the other UNE team anymore, but Dave Lamb is an exceptional nav, and the combined experience of Dave, Mark, and Jeff is almost impossible to beat Their fourth is a late addition and she is new to expedition racing, but she is a great athlete.
The Checkpoint Zero squad is a great group of racers. Not as well known outside the US, perhaps, but they're good and experienced, and Peter esp has a fair bit ARWS experience. The others have all done expeditions in North America, though I'm not sure exactly what and when.
Main Nerve could be great. Again, loads of experience in North America especially. They did really well at ARWC in Wyoming. They do have some injury issues. In short, if they are on, they might be up at the top.
From Canada: Indecisive but Not So Sure. I know Chad Spence's reputation (and he had great success with Bones in Belize this winter) and Chris L has been around a fair bit in North America. I expect them to be good.
Also from Canada: The Mercators. They are a good group. We raced against them in Maine last month. Seem like a team that could be there at the end.
NYARA Montbell. A good group of racers. Not a ton of XPD experience, but some. Loads of 24 hours. Good group of athletes. These guys can mix it up if things go right for them. Eric raced with Abby and me (and Ryan Van Gorder) when we took 2nd in Tasmania in March.
Rib Mountain Wedali is a conglomeration of two of the strongest midwest teams in the US. Great racers, though more success and experience (for most of them) at the 24 hour level. Erl has more big race experience. I think they can challenge for the podium if their race goes well.
I don't know enough about Delta Denmark, but having raced in the UK three times, I have tons of respect for European racers. I think they run deeper than we do in North America, so while I might not recognize their name or their athletes, I never rule them out. I think the guys that won Oregon are a good example of this.
They aren't coed, but Silent Chasers (2 person male) could be interesting overall.
ARLC: Any last thoughts.
Brent - Again, we definitely want to do well. We have had a great run over the last year and a half, and our team really has worked hard, not just for UNE but in general over the last year, led by the work ethic and training of Abby Perkiss. We have won most of our regional races dating back to early 2017 including a team (w/ Abby and Brian on it) winning the USARA National Champs last fall. We're confident we can do well, but as I said, we also know this race will be very difficult, and you can't take anything for granted. So we will focus more on efficiency and strategy rather than placement.
I managed to catch up with Brent Freedland of Rootstock Racing and get his thoughts on the race:
ARLC: So what are you expecting from UTNE this year?
Brent - I know it will be an ARWS caliber event. Great course, well produced and organized, some nice bells and whistles, nice prize purse. BUT, since it's not in the series, there are no ARWC podium caliber teams coming. So it will be wide open, I think with ten or so teams all capable of ending up on the podium in some order. It's a great opportunity for everyone, but from a competitive angle, it's awesome for the 10 or so teams that can all do very well at ARWS events but who never or rarely have realistic chances of WINNING them to gun for the top three.
ARLC: What is your past experience at UTNE?
Brent - We used to race as GOALS ARA. We directed races for them and were their race team. In 2009, 2010, and 2012 we raced as GOALS. In 2009, we had a great race...right up until the end. We had collected some bonus points that had us sitting in third place. All we had to do was get to the finish line. BUT...a big nav error on the last night cost us several hour, and then a logged out area which turned around a ton of teams was too much to handle. Time ran out on us in the woods. Bummer!
In 2010, the field was loaded by North American standards with a couple of very strong European teams as well. This turned out to be our best UNE to date. With many top teams including Tecnu (I personally wonder if this race was the race that really set Tecnu and Kyle Peter off) not making it through the time cutoffs, we were one of seven or eight teams to remain on the "pro course". This said, it should be noted that we did not CLEAR the course. There was a big final rogaine at the finish. We didn't need or get any of those points. In fact, I'm not sure anyone got all of them. In 2009 and 2010, this was notable at UNE: courses that were not in fact cleared by anyone as designed. In 2012 and 2014 this changed, partly because world champ level teams came and partly because Grant eased up a bit, I think. We finished 5th.
In 2012, we were derailed a bit by tech. issues: literally, my bike fell apart at the start of a four hour mountain bike. Turned into an eight hour hike a bike for me. We were knocked off the full course at the time, though as it turned out we had plenty of time to finish it:( We finished first, short course, 11th overall.
ARLC: Ok so who are the main competition?
Brent - Both Untamed New England teams will be very strong. We expect the one captained by Jason U. to be strongest, and possibly the team to beat on paper. Very strong quartet of athletes: Jason, Alex Provost, and Mindy have all raced on fast, strong teams in the past, and all have had guest appearances with the likes of Kyle Peter. Alex is one of the best racers in Canada. All have tons of ARWS experience. Tough to beat.
The other UNE is loaded with savvy and experience. They are older and don't have the wheels of the other UNE team anymore, but Dave Lamb is an exceptional nav, and the combined experience of Dave, Mark, and Jeff is almost impossible to beat Their fourth is a late addition and she is new to expedition racing, but she is a great athlete.
The Checkpoint Zero squad is a great group of racers. Not as well known outside the US, perhaps, but they're good and experienced, and Peter esp has a fair bit ARWS experience. The others have all done expeditions in North America, though I'm not sure exactly what and when.
Main Nerve could be great. Again, loads of experience in North America especially. They did really well at ARWC in Wyoming. They do have some injury issues. In short, if they are on, they might be up at the top.
From Canada: Indecisive but Not So Sure. I know Chad Spence's reputation (and he had great success with Bones in Belize this winter) and Chris L has been around a fair bit in North America. I expect them to be good.
Also from Canada: The Mercators. They are a good group. We raced against them in Maine last month. Seem like a team that could be there at the end.
NYARA Montbell. A good group of racers. Not a ton of XPD experience, but some. Loads of 24 hours. Good group of athletes. These guys can mix it up if things go right for them. Eric raced with Abby and me (and Ryan Van Gorder) when we took 2nd in Tasmania in March.
Rib Mountain Wedali is a conglomeration of two of the strongest midwest teams in the US. Great racers, though more success and experience (for most of them) at the 24 hour level. Erl has more big race experience. I think they can challenge for the podium if their race goes well.
I don't know enough about Delta Denmark, but having raced in the UK three times, I have tons of respect for European racers. I think they run deeper than we do in North America, so while I might not recognize their name or their athletes, I never rule them out. I think the guys that won Oregon are a good example of this.
They aren't coed, but Silent Chasers (2 person male) could be interesting overall.
ARLC: Any last thoughts.
Brent - Again, we definitely want to do well. We have had a great run over the last year and a half, and our team really has worked hard, not just for UNE but in general over the last year, led by the work ethic and training of Abby Perkiss. We have won most of our regional races dating back to early 2017 including a team (w/ Abby and Brian on it) winning the USARA National Champs last fall. We're confident we can do well, but as I said, we also know this race will be very difficult, and you can't take anything for granted. So we will focus more on efficiency and strategy rather than placement.
Jul 25, 2018 2:36 AM
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Bash:
Main maps. There are also supplemental maps and a race booklet. I'll see if I can get a link posted here but this will be a start.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddl8fqyknhhsatk/FinalRac...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ddl8fqyknhhsatk/FinalRac...
Jul 25, 2018 1:54 PM
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Nice dispersion already leaving CP5. Curious to see how Untamed #3 fares on their roundabout way.
Jul 25, 2018 2:12 PM
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Help! I can't get the tracking map to work. I keep getting an error message: "There's no race at this address. Check your typing!" whenever I click the link above. Obviously some of you are seeing it.
Any ideas?
Any ideas?
Jul 25, 2018 2:18 PM
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The tracking map worked for me around 7:30am but now I'm getting the same error as Sandy.
Jul 25, 2018 2:40 PM
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Same, I've been with good with the inTIMidator's link.
Phone app seems to be working fine as well, if trying that is an option.
Phone app seems to be working fine as well, if trying that is an option.
Jul 25, 2018 2:54 PM
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Looks like UNE #3 lost 30 minutes going around or Rootstock picked it up by going through the saddle. Five wide heading to CP6!
Jul 25, 2018 2:58 PM
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Not sure about the cluster of trackers that have been motionless on the top of Jordan Mtn for an hour. I like the varied route choices among the front teams so far.
Jul 25, 2018 3:33 PM
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Frustrating - still can't get it to work for me. I wonder if there are too many people trying to watch.
Jul 25, 2018 5:31 PM
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My crude eyeball says UNE #3 is ~70% of the way through in 6:30 hrs, so more or less in line with the fast travel, esp. as it's downhill for them to the TA (assuming comparable levels of overall ruggedness, not sure if that's fair given the ski runs early). Not too many teams at the 50% mark, so largely so far so good.
Jul 25, 2018 7:12 PM
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UNE #3 beats fastest estimates! ~30 minutes ahead of pace into the TA.
Jul 25, 2018 7:18 PM
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26 Team Andalucía BiciAventura may be making the first error I've noticed - wandering over to Robinson Peak instead of Campbell Mountain. Unfortunate, as they might have been around 10th if in the right place. Not judging, as I did a similar goof earlier this season!
Jul 25, 2018 7:55 PM
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Rootstock also hit the fastest time! CP0 more or less did, they are right there.
Jul 25, 2018 8:04 PM
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TAB's compass continues to fail them. Adventure Enablers and Black Swan are lured by the same ridge. Turn around! Midwest Mayhem and Nerdquist will hopefully stay left.
Jul 25, 2018 8:27 PM
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Jul 25, 2018 8:33 PM
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Bash:
At Race HQ, we're keeping a close eye on Team 26! They're a young, fit team from Ecuador where the maps, mountains and trails probably look a bit different.
Jul 25, 2018 9:02 PM
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In retrospect they prob weren't pulled over there (minor tracker error) but it looked like an interesting spot to stop
Jul 26, 2018 1:58 AM
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Does anyone know what the first paddle leg is like? Are we talking lazy river cruise or technical?
Jul 26, 2018 2:28 AM
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In case you are not watching on FB....
CP15 on the Leg 3 paddle has had to be cancelled due to low water levels. Teams will go directly from CP14 to CP16.
Jul 26, 2018 6:43 AM
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Late is the hour and mtb nav is getting weird at the front. Three of the front four teams has had a bobble in the last hour. A bobble lost Rootstock their second position about 20 minutes ago. UTNE has just stopped ~0.7 km short of CP21...going to guess they think they might have already passed it in the dark. Indecisive took a detour into NH for a while but has now turned back to Maine for CP19.
Jul 26, 2018 11:53 AM
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Anyone have a link to the map for the mtb-O relay section? And am I correct that each team member has to complete it individually?
Jul 26, 2018 1:58 PM
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Check out this link for a little bit more detail: http://www.pinnacletracking.com/Live/CPDetails.asp...
Jul 26, 2018 2:23 PM
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Looks like Untamed (3) has completed the MTBO and is moving on. Perhaps Rootstock as well.
Jul 26, 2018 4:35 PM
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What's the scoop on the upcoming trek? Suggested route has more convolutions than I would've guessed from the one unknown CP (33) location?
Jul 26, 2018 4:38 PM
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There is a supplemental map with 6 CPs for this route that teams won't see until they arrive at TA4: http://www.pinnacletracking.com/Live/CPDetails.asp...
Jul 26, 2018 8:12 PM
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Any guesses at winning time? UNE #3 is about to hit halfway, distance wise, in under 36 hrs. Second half has less climb, haven't looked into the expected yellow area pace.
Jul 26, 2018 9:13 PM
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Any ideas on what's going on with UNE #3? Did they swing by the TA on purpose?
Jul 26, 2018 9:59 PM
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Ah-ha. AR Live Coverage on facebook has a photo of some of the controls on this trek and the red line on the tracking map doesn't go to those cps. It makes a lot more sense now.
Jul 26, 2018 9:59 PM
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Bash:
We didn't hear anything so we assume all is well. We don't have the map of the east side of the orienteering where they were when that happened. The trackers do have some quirks at times!
Jul 26, 2018 10:02 PM
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Bash:
Haha, I guess I can learn more at AR Live Coverage! Craig and I are in regular contact and we sent him maps, instructions, etc. before the race since it's like having an extra member of HQ staff who doesn't have to worry about how to get the bikes, trucks, gear bins, volunteers and dropped-out racers further down the course! :)
Jul 26, 2018 10:09 PM
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I was wrong about the red line on the tracking map not going to the cp. It does. I guess UNE is just taking a very different route than predicted.
Jul 26, 2018 10:20 PM
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UNE 3 seem to have a preference for not using ridge lines, based on their route in Trek 1
Jul 26, 2018 11:14 PM
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Actually, now I see that I was right the first time and the red line on the tracking map does not go to checkpoint D; it's one hilltop to the SE. You can see UNE just missed it and had to backtrack slightly to get it. Definitely makes more sense now.
Jul 27, 2018 2:06 AM
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Bash:
The map for D, E, F (west side) is in our spectator guide.
https://www.facebook.com/UntamedNE/photos/p.180576...
https://www.facebook.com/UntamedNE/photos/p.180576...
Jul 27, 2018 5:18 AM
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Rootstock just took a 1hr sleep on the top of Gunstock Mtn (top of ski lifts). Looks like CP0 may have caught them up, but now Rootstock has the sleep advantage.
Jul 28, 2018 5:35 AM
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Did somebody drive off with UNE's tracker? It's moving completely off the expected course, skipping CPs, and following a pretty clear roadway, but the speed it's moving is reasonable for bikes. I'm confused...
Jul 28, 2018 6:55 AM
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Now Rootstock is taking a similar track to UNE. I'm beginning to think that the race mgmt has decided to shorten the course a bit more by trimming out the Western half of this bike + foot O' leg. It appears that both teams clipped CP60 and then proceeded to CP68, skipping everything in between. There are supposed to be special instructions for finding CP69, so I imagine someone either back at the foot O' relay or maybe at CP60 is handing out the key info...?
Jul 28, 2018 1:41 PM
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FB:
Looks like UNE has won?
Haven't had much time to follow along this week, so thanks to those who have posted here giving me a chance to get quick updates on my phone.
Seems to me it was a good course and well managed. Congrats to all.
Now to watch the 'battles' to the finish.
Haven't had much time to follow along this week, so thanks to those who have posted here giving me a chance to get quick updates on my phone.
Seems to me it was a good course and well managed. Congrats to all.
Now to watch the 'battles' to the finish.
Jul 28, 2018 2:36 PM
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FB:
Looks like Indecisive is hanging onto 5th but UNE.com likely won't go quietly...
Jul 30, 2018 7:53 PM
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Bash:
As Conman probably found out a long time ago, teams were advised to skip 61-67. There was a 3-hr storm stoppage on Friday evening. This meant that most teams would miss significant portions of the course downstream because of the 1 a.m. cut-off at TA7. It was extended to 6 a.m. and the course beyond that was shortened to allow teams time to get back to the finish line, which had a hard deadline of Sunday at 10 a.m. (It was a seriously hard deadline - a rental house on the ocean with a checkout time!)
Jul 30, 2018 7:54 PM
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Bash:
For non-Facebookers like FB, there is a fair amount of news on the Live Coverage site. The leaderboard is provisional but UNE is definitely the winner.
http://www.pinnacletracking.com/Live/Story.aspx?un...
However, during the race, things were often thrown quickly onto Facebook. We got a lot of interaction and questions there from spectators, which was good. Unfortunately, I didn't have much time to get back here!
http://www.pinnacletracking.com/Live/Story.aspx?un...
However, during the race, things were often thrown quickly onto Facebook. We got a lot of interaction and questions there from spectators, which was good. Unfortunately, I didn't have much time to get back here!
Aug 2, 2018 11:12 AM
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If anyone is interested in tracks: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1MthogtUSIF...
This discussion thread is closed.