Discussion: Other Teams

...aren't getting free race entry. Entry fee with HST is $600, not counting accommodation, gas and dog sitting. That's not unreasonable if you believe an event will be really good but...

Barb, you are too nice. "Issues" have happened far too many times which is too bad. This is why we don't do those races anymore which is unfortunate.

For an interesting view from an upper midpack team, read DoubleDown_on11's report. Disturbing.

http://www.ar.attackpoint.org/viewlog.jsp/user_925...

Congrats Harps!! Not really sorry you missed out on the shoes... have to agree with Bash here ;))

The one thing I will give credit for in the FAR races is that (other than WT) it is the most 'wilderness-based' race AR in Ontario (little to no trails, remote). They haven't come south for more racers (or for any other reason).

true that! I think weather played spoil sport here otherwise 12hrs of wilderness would definitely have been more enjoyable!

The terrain/colours were spectacular and although the weather wasn't ideal, it's tough to expect any different in early October.

Harps, I agree. Although I prefer longer events, each year I would like to do a couple of well-organized 8-12 hour wilderness races like the Salomon Adventure Challenges used to be when people like Phatty handled the logistics, and professionals designed the courses. I wish someone would get into that business. Sadly, for whatever reason, in spite of considerable feedback over the years, some very close calls and dozens of "second chances", it appears that FAR does not intend to be in that business anymore. I hope we can convince someone else to step in and organize safe, high quality sprint AR events in wilderness settings. In the meantime, it would be fun to organize training weekends in wilderness areas where we could do long treks, paddles, etc. Maybe we can twist FB's arm to let us pitch tents on his cottage lawn one weekend next year. :)

Any clue why there is a lack of those types of events...the 8-12 hour ARs? Are they just to hard to get decent turnouts, or not financially feasible to hit a break even point?

I truly believe that is why FAR is still getting racer turnout...lack of better options during that time in the calendar.

I think one reason for why there has been a lack of 8-12hr adventure races is that all of the race directors in Ontario have been doing a great job of "playing nice" when it comes to dates for events. As a race director, I have been very impressed by the amount of communication between race directors and the sense of AR team there seems to be between race directors. All events seem to have settled into their regular dates and we all try to keep races at least 2 weeks apart so racers don't have to choose one event or the other. With this one more logistically-flawed Frontier event, I suspect that some other race directors may start ignoring Geoff's future Frontier events on the calendar and may soon add another event (or two) that will ultimately replace them.

A little Race Director Inside story... The only recent exception to the 2-week rule that I can think of was the inaugural 2010 Wilderness Traverse being scheduled just one week after my inaugural 12-hr Angry Seagull: Dusk til Dawn race. Demonstrating the great relationship between race directors, Bob had called me before dates were finalized. Bob didn't feel right scheduling WT only a week after my event but because of expedition race commitments he wasn't able to move WT to a different date and he wanted to give me the heads up and the chance to adjust dates. I thought the two events would draw different crowds so chose not to change dates (oops... D2D drew just 7 teams), but the communication and sense of team amongst the Race Director community was (and remains) appreciated.

I agree with Jay about the great job RD's have done in developing an annual S. Ontario schedule that really is quite spectacular really. It wasn't always that nicey nicey though with ARC and RTN going to battle for dates. Once those two RD's had their schedules set then Storm, ESAR and the Dontgetlost Raids chose what was left over.

But early May and late September seem to be ideal times for AR. Really nice actually! No bugs, spring melt and autumn leaves. Ahhh, great time of year. Well perhaps the nicey nicey will change some time soon. Because well it just doesn't seem fair to those that would like to race in a quality AR at that time of year to have to either accept sub par quality or not race at all.

Totally agree. And the racers also benefit nicely from that cooperation and the buffer between events. Each year seems like clockwork for throwing together a schedule because you can pretty much guess where the races will be. Now with WT in August, June is free....with the added bonus of mossies. : ) It would be nice to see something in there, or even October which is traditionally another dead spot.

June has ESAR!

October next year has the Canadian Orienteering Champs and the year later the Nor-Am Champs! ;-) October is the best month of the year for orienteering in Ontario but many areas 'up north' for AR are limited by widespread hunting.

I'm the course planner for the orienteering Nationals next year. Courses are already designed and we have had four different people test route choices and CP locations already.

October also has the Ottawa Rogaine and now the Toronto Rogaine (though the latter I think would fit really nicely into March).

With some help in event management I think the Stars Winter Adventure Race has real potential too.

Completely forgot about ESAR. :) Curious...is there a significant amount of cross-over between registrants in AR and orienteering (aside from the adventure running series)?

I'd say there is a fair bit of cross-over in S. Ontario and the NE US but not a 'significant' amount. The cross over happens mainly in the Salomon Dontgetlost Adventure Running Series and some rogaines. I think more people prefer the "team dynamics and endurance" over the "high speed running and precision nav". That is partly why when we brought in Adventure Running Kids (and now our teenager program Adventure Running X) we made team dynamics a big part of it. Hopefully we will soon have next generation of adventure racers racing in STT and LRS and more.

A lot of adventure racers also do the Thomass winter orienteering series in southern Ontario. It has turned into a social event - run around in the snow practising your navigation, then head out to lunch afterward.

There were a few adventure racers at the Ontario Orienteering Champs Long course race this past Sunday too, e.g. Getawaystix, Chief, 'Bent and me.

I agree with Angry Seagull about the "playing nice" between RDs, and we're really lucky about that. It is incredibly difficult to avoid scheduling conflicts, and there are a couple that have arisen in Ontario in spite of best efforts. Race dates are not only the RD's decision - host venues often restrict the timing of races too.

The season for wilderness racing is short since racers are going to get wet, and they're going to be in remote areas where a rescue would take awhile. The year we held Wilderness Traverse in early June, a number of racers dropped out because they got chilled. Another reason why there aren't more races in June? Bugs! And the 24 Hrs of Summer Solstice mountain bike race, which attracts over 2,000 riders.

The main reason for the shortage of good 8-12 hour wilderness races in Ontario is that the current RDs in Ontario prefer organizing other types of events.

STORM focuses on events that accommodate a wide range of racers from novice to experienced. The rest of us benefit when newbie racers expand their repertoire to include other types of adventure events. (Btw if you haven't done RockstAR, there is some beautiful wilderness terrain around Bark Lake, which was the host site for a number of FAR races in the past.)

Getawaystix and Angry Seagull prefer to host longer races. GStix would like to host an expedition race in Ontario some day. He likes to design the types of races that he enjoys doing most himself, and the 8-12 hour format isn't high on his list. Having said that, I think these two guys are probably the RDs we need to work on. :)

It is a big deal to manage a new event. Conscientious RDs are nervous about taking on another event because they know how much work it is to do a good job. From working with GStix, I've seen how unglamorous and difficult a lot of the work is - submitting detailed requests to town council, redesigning the course after a landowner refuses permission, making proposals to sponsors, etc., etc. I can understand why these guys aren't looking for more work, even though a 8-12 hour wilderness race could be financially viable (by AR standards, that is!)